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Software for race track application - 3d free surface baffle design optimization |
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#1 |
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Pete Koepfgen
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What are the best software to simulate a 3d, free surface, sloshing problem for an engine oil pan, on a race track (addressing braking, turning, and accelerating forces)? We are having oil starvation issues and have a number of baffle designs to try and optimize.
Here is a video of the kind of simulation I want to do: https://youtu.be/-Iyh-S-LGN8 Or http://mdx2.plm.automation.siemens.c...-tank-sloshing I've tried ansys fluent and it seems to very slow even with a simple 2.5 D tutorial problems let along a true 3D one. I have a mesh .stl file of the oil sump surfaces. |
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#2 |
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#3 |
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Pete Koepfgen
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Thank you Ahmed!
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#4 |
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Arjun
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"I've tried ansys fluent and it seems to very slow even with a simple 2.5 D tutorial problems let along a true 3D one."
Most VOF simulations of these kind are slow. If you find fluent slow then you will be surprised with openFOAM. Looking at the animation it seems like the simulation has good amount of body force applied to it. For VOF simulations Fluent offers something called body force weighted scheme so if I have to guess Fluent would be much better to use compared to openfoam here. PS: FVUS/wildkatze also has this body force weighted scheme and have same discretization procedure, so what fluent can do it can too. Only difference is FVUS offers thinc scheme for VOF which shall be slightly better than VOF scheme in fluent as far as sharpness goes. |
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#5 |
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Joern Beilke
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Are you sure that the oil/air surface remains sharp in reality? Do you expect any surface breakup or droplet/spray generation?
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#6 | |
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Anton Kidess
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*On twitter @akidTwit *Spend as much time formulating your questions as you expect people to spend on their answer. |
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#7 | |
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Arjun
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Quote:
Anyway if one does with openFOAM then we will come to know how fast or easy it is with openFOAM. If saving 50000 dollars is main thing, FVUS is closest to fluent in terms of solver as it has same method with very small differences (I followed what fluent does because they lead this market).. So if fluent can do you should get it with FVUS too. (openFOAM is different algorithm minus body force weighted scheme). PS: Actually i believe FVUS hybrid solver (fractional plus implicit) shall be most efficient as it drops to implicit scheme below certain timestep size (that user specifies). |
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#8 |
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Pete Koepfgen
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#9 |
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Pete Koepfgen
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So fluent may be the fastest, follows FVUS, followed by open foam(?)
Does the SPH method help speed things up? I don't need high levels of accuracy here. It's for visualization. |
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#10 | |
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Arjun
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In this case, check the stability of the solver first. I spent a lot of time with VOF and comparing with Fluent etc and I think the body force dominated calculations are difficult to do. More than speed this shall be your criteria for it as of now, because the animation does look good but you don't know the problems they faced developing it. Speed of calculation as to do with this courant criteria related time stepping. Implicit scheme as provided by Fluent starccm defuse the interface too much and is not a desirable thing. So explicit scheme is what is suggested. Now with explicit scheme the courant will decide the speed of calculation. Fluent, openfoam, starccm provide PISO for this purpose. In FVUS I put hybrid solver that is it is fractional plus implicit type time stepping. So typically you can do say 100 fractional step and then 1 implicit type step. (That removes the error build up due to fractional steps and thus more stable than normal fractional solvers). PS: This body force was the reason, I reversed engineered Fluent's body force weighted scheme in FVUS. |
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#11 |
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Michigan
Join Date: Jun 2017
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WRAFTS works well on oil slosh problems.
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#12 |
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Pete Koepfgen
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Tags |
3d structure, free surface, liquid slosh, race track, visualization |
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