ICE Dynamic Mesh Combustion

Aziz84 · May 29, 2010, 04:54

Hi everyone,
I'm Aziz, a student from Australia. I need to simulate engine combustion using dynamic mesh in fluent. Could anyone tell me where can I get the tutorial? The one that I have from Fluent website is without combustion. Pls help.

Thanks.

Rajamohan · July 2, 2010, 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aziz84

Hi everyone,
I'm Aziz, a student from Australia. I need to simulate engine combustion using dynamic mesh in fluent. Could anyone tell me where can I get the tutorial? The one that I have from Fluent website is without combustion. Pls help.

Thanks.

i will help u,
I did M.Tech Project with 3d model IC Engine with suction,compression, expansion and exhaust.

Kindly give ur input

regards
Rajamohan.U
India

Aziz84 · July 8, 2010, 23:22

Hi Rajamohan,

Thanks for your help. Actually, I starts from zero, means I need to learn how to create dynamic mesh of engine combustion model. I will be mo worth it if you can provide me with some tutorials. Basically, I wanted to do as yours, suction, compression, expansion and exhaust but in HCCI mode. It alright if you can provide me with some tutorial for any SI or CI modes and then I will change to HCCI mode. I use diesel+hydrogen as a fuel. It is very appreciated if you can give me some examples of the model.

Thanks.

Aziz84 · July 8, 2010, 23:23

I did send message to your email as well. thanks a lot.

mas · August 4, 2010, 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajamohan

i will help u,
I did M.Tech Project with 3d model IC Engine with suction,compression, expansion and exhaust.

Kindly give ur input

regards
Rajamohan.U
India

Hi Rajamohan,

I'm having problem of mesh not updating only during combustion via volumetric reaction.
Is your project worked fine using dynamic mesh + combustion?
Did you use spark-ignition model?

Regards,
Mas

doki · August 4, 2010, 08:54

I intend to perform the same modeling in fluent. I have completed a motoring (without combustion) cycle, though having some problems in combustion modeling. the engine I am using is a SI engine.
the problem I have is I do not have any data to compare the modeling results with! what I mean is some data for validation. could anybody help me on the subject?
thanks

mas · August 5, 2010, 05:00

Hi doki,

The validation part is very tricky even if you have experimental data and I can't help you with that. But for rough validation, I would suggest to compare your in-cylinder pressure curve with experimental result obtained from published SAE papers or journals.

doki · August 5, 2010, 07:01

Thank you for your reply
you are right about the validation. the thing is I can not find any experimental data in papers which could be used. I mean, there ARE some experimental data, but the geometrical data for the engines (my geom. and the paper's) do not match.
Could geometrically different shapes of piston/cylinder head/valves have such a major effect on in cylinder P or T? I mean, can I use the same bore*stroke engine data from the literature for my case validation safely?

mas · August 6, 2010, 10:11

Hi doki,

For motoring, the cylinder P and T depends very much on the total air mass during intake stroke. Other factors are the compression ratio, heat loss through the walls.
For direct fuel injection, piston shape, cylinder head shape, and clearance volume play some role.
For combustion, all the above.

But, for your case, maybe you can get more detail info on the engine if you refer to research that uses commercially available engine, for example, Mitsubishi GDI. Or maybe you can use an estimated scale up geometry from figures found in the paper.

*Hint* Japanese car makers are usually "more open" than the rest of the world.

doki · August 6, 2010, 10:32

Hi mas
yeah, you are right. there are many different variables affecting the results. I have found several papers and some data, But still wonder if I could use the data effectively.
the variables you mentioned could affect the results in a way that they should be regarded as very case-specific test data; i.e. you can use them only when you have access to detailed geometrical data of the specified engine.
anyway, thank you very much for your help

Aziz84 · August 13, 2010, 08:44

Hi Doki,
One way to verify your data if you haven't found the similar engine as yours is using others engine data from journal papers. Then, once you get the similar result, you can run your own simulation...

doki · August 13, 2010, 15:02

hi
you are right but I'm afraid if I can use the data. All the geometrical data available in the literature includes bore*stroke, connecting rod lenght and compression ratio.
there are a lot of geometrical dependencies which I am not sure have such an effect on the results or not.

May 29, 2010, 04:54	ICE Dynamic Mesh Combustion	#1
Aziz84 New Member Aziz Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 16	Hi everyone, I'm Aziz, a student from Australia. I need to simulate engine combustion using dynamic mesh in fluent. Could anyone tell me where can I get the tutorial? The one that I have from Fluent website is without combustion. Pls help. Thanks.

August 5, 2010, 05:00		#7
mas New Member Mas Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Japan Posts: 24 Rep Power: 16	Hi doki, The validation part is very tricky even if you have experimental data and I can't help you with that. But for rough validation, I would suggest to compare your in-cylinder pressure curve with experimental result obtained from published SAE papers or journals. chungvit likes this. __________________ <Mas>

August 6, 2010, 10:11		#9
mas New Member Mas Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Japan Posts: 24 Rep Power: 16	Hi doki, For motoring, the cylinder P and T depends very much on the total air mass during intake stroke. Other factors are the compression ratio, heat loss through the walls. For direct fuel injection, piston shape, cylinder head shape, and clearance volume play some role. For combustion, all the above. But, for your case, maybe you can get more detail info on the engine if you refer to research that uses commercially available engine, for example, Mitsubishi GDI. Or maybe you can use an estimated scale up geometry from figures found in the paper. Hint Japanese car makers are usually "more open" than the rest of the world. __________________ <Mas>

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July 8, 2010, 23:22		#3
Aziz84 New Member Aziz Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 16	Hi Rajamohan, Thanks for your help. Actually, I starts from zero, means I need to learn how to create dynamic mesh of engine combustion model. I will be mo worth it if you can provide me with some tutorials. Basically, I wanted to do as yours, suction, compression, expansion and exhaust but in HCCI mode. It alright if you can provide me with some tutorial for any SI or CI modes and then I will change to HCCI mode. I use diesel+hydrogen as a fuel. It is very appreciated if you can give me some examples of the model. Thanks.

July 8, 2010, 23:23		#4
Aziz84 New Member Aziz Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 16	I did send message to your email as well. thanks a lot.

August 4, 2010, 08:54		#6
doki Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 41 Rep Power: 17	I intend to perform the same modeling in fluent. I have completed a motoring (without combustion) cycle, though having some problems in combustion modeling. the engine I am using is a SI engine. the problem I have is I do not have any data to compare the modeling results with! what I mean is some data for validation. could anybody help me on the subject? thanks

August 5, 2010, 07:01		#8
doki Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 41 Rep Power: 17	Thank you for your reply you are right about the validation. the thing is I can not find any experimental data in papers which could be used. I mean, there ARE some experimental data, but the geometrical data for the engines (my geom. and the paper's) do not match. Could geometrically different shapes of piston/cylinder head/valves have such a major effect on in cylinder P or T? I mean, can I use the same bore*stroke engine data from the literature for my case validation safely?

August 6, 2010, 10:32		#10
doki Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 41 Rep Power: 17	Hi mas yeah, you are right. there are many different variables affecting the results. I have found several papers and some data, But still wonder if I could use the data effectively. the variables you mentioned could affect the results in a way that they should be regarded as very case-specific test data; i.e. you can use them only when you have access to detailed geometrical data of the specified engine. anyway, thank you very much for your help

August 13, 2010, 08:44		#11
Aziz84 New Member Aziz Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 16	Hi Doki, One way to verify your data if you haven't found the similar engine as yours is using others engine data from journal papers. Then, once you get the similar result, you can run your own simulation...

August 13, 2010, 15:02		#12
doki Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 41 Rep Power: 17	hi you are right but I'm afraid if I can use the data. All the geometrical data available in the literature includes bore*stroke, connecting rod lenght and compression ratio. there are a lot of geometrical dependencies which I am not sure have such an effect on the results or not.