definition of "node" / "element" in CFX and ICEM CFD

murx · May 27, 2011, 08:40

Hi,

I'm new to CFD and have a question to which I could not find an answer in the User Guide concerning the definition of node and element in CFX and ICEM CFD.

First of all, I have a block structured mesh that was built in ICEM CFD. ICEM gives me the following information about the mesh: Total nodes: 242340 Total Elements: 262571. The mesh report in CFD Post states the same number of nodes but only 223200 elements. Why the difference? And afaik, the nodes in finite volume discretization are located in the center of the control volume (CV), so shouldn't there always be the same number of nodes and elements? I guess the reason for the difference could be the CVs on domain boundaries.

And that is where my second question comes up. In the CFX Reference Guide, chapter 15.1, there is a figure picturing the mesh structure at boundaries. According to this picture, there are nodes ON the boundary and the corresponding CVs are only half as big as the others (while having a constant node density on the edge). Is this really the case?

I want to export the CV values of an outlet and need to calculate a mean value, that's why the volume of the CVs is important to me.

Thanks in advance for your answers!

kambireddy · May 28, 2011, 04:01

Hiiii

Please Refer these link. I think u ll get resolved..

http://www.cfd-online.com/Forums/cfx...des-faces.html

Let me know still if you had any Q`s?

ghorrocks · May 28, 2011, 07:43

First question: ICEM puts 2D elements on boundary faces so it knows these are boundary conditions. CFX ignores these elements and instead puts the boundary conditions on the 3D elements. But this means ICEM counts the surface elements as additional elements but CFX does not.

Second question: Yes, it really is the case. Why would they put it in the documentation if it was not the case?

baserinia · May 29, 2011, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by murx

Hi,
In the CFX Reference Guide, chapter 15.1, there is a figure picturing the mesh structure at boundaries. According to this picture, there are nodes ON the boundary and the corresponding CVs are only half as big as the others (while having a constant node density on the edge). Is this really the case?

Hi,
You may want to look at the difference between cell-centred vs. cell-vertex finite volume methods. CFX uses a cell-vertex approach; in other words, the mesh vertices are the CV nodes. In cell-centred approach, however, the CV node is at the centroid of each cell.

umar afzal · January 17, 2017, 09:47

I want to do the examples in the CFD++ help files. Theres should be some individual cases provide on the htp.metacompteck.com which they provided.But I get nothing on it. Where should I find the files I need?

ghorrocks · January 18, 2017, 04:24

This is the CFX forum. We know nothing about CFD++. Please use the correct forum in future.

And secondly, for a new question start a new thread. Do not hijack existing threads.

May 27, 2011, 08:40	definition of "node" / "element" in CFX and ICEM CFD	#1
murx Member Max Join Date: May 2011 Location: old europe Posts: 88 Rep Power: 15	Hi, I'm new to CFD and have a question to which I could not find an answer in the User Guide concerning the definition of node and element in CFX and ICEM CFD. First of all, I have a block structured mesh that was built in ICEM CFD. ICEM gives me the following information about the mesh: Total nodes: 242340 Total Elements: 262571. The mesh report in CFD Post states the same number of nodes but only 223200 elements. Why the difference? And afaik, the nodes in finite volume discretization are located in the center of the control volume (CV), so shouldn't there always be the same number of nodes and elements? I guess the reason for the difference could be the CVs on domain boundaries. And that is where my second question comes up. In the CFX Reference Guide, chapter 15.1, there is a figure picturing the mesh structure at boundaries. According to this picture, there are nodes ON the boundary and the corresponding CVs are only half as big as the others (while having a constant node density on the edge). Is this really the case? I want to export the CV values of an outlet and need to calculate a mean value, that's why the volume of the CVs is important to me. Thanks in advance for your answers!

May 28, 2011, 07:43		#3
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,871 Rep Power: 144	First question: ICEM puts 2D elements on boundary faces so it knows these are boundary conditions. CFX ignores these elements and instead puts the boundary conditions on the 3D elements. But this means ICEM counts the surface elements as additional elements but CFX does not. Second question: Yes, it really is the case. Why would they put it in the documentation if it was not the case? kambireddy likes this.

January 17, 2017, 09:47	dear all	#5
umar afzal New Member umar Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 9	I want to do the examples in the CFD++ help files. Theres should be some individual cases provide on the htp.metacompteck.com which they provided.But I get nothing on it. Where should I find the files I need?

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May 28, 2011, 04:01		#2
kambireddy New Member Redddy Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 25 Rep Power: 16	Hiiii Please Refer these link. I think u ll get resolved.. http://www.cfd-online.com/Forums/cfx...des-faces.html Let me know still if you had any Q`s?

January 18, 2017, 04:24		#6
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,871 Rep Power: 144	This is the CFX forum. We know nothing about CFD++. Please use the correct forum in future. And secondly, for a new question start a new thread. Do not hijack existing threads.