CFD Online Logo CFD Online URL
www.cfd-online.com
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > Software User Forums > ANSYS > CFX

Eddy Dissipation Rate for LES

Register Blogs Community New Posts Updated Threads Search

Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By rsin

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old   July 8, 2010, 20:19
Default Eddy Dissipation Rate for LES
  #1
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 20
Rep Power: 17
rsin is on a distinguished road
Hi,

I want to extract eddy dissipation rate for LES model. I do not understand how to do it. I have the required formula in front of me which says:

total edddy dissipation rate for LES = e = (Mut+Mu)/2*(du'/dy+dv'/dx)^2

I don't understand how to post process that?

I am using v12.1 of CFX. Any help will be appreciable.
Thanks
rsin is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   July 15, 2010, 04:17
Default
  #2
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 20
Rep Power: 17
rsin is on a distinguished road
Common guys! no-one has any idea? A little hint will be useful!
rsin is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   July 15, 2010, 07:46
Default
  #3
Super Moderator
 
Glenn Horrocks
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 17,871
Rep Power: 144
ghorrocks is just really niceghorrocks is just really niceghorrocks is just really niceghorrocks is just really nice
Do you want to evaluate it over the whole domain (ie create a field variable) or just at certain points or get a global value?
ghorrocks is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   July 15, 2010, 22:07
Default
  #4
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 20
Rep Power: 17
rsin is on a distinguished road
i want to evaluate it both locally and globally.
rsin is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   July 16, 2010, 09:33
Default
  #5
Super Moderator
 
Glenn Horrocks
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 17,871
Rep Power: 144
ghorrocks is just really niceghorrocks is just really niceghorrocks is just really niceghorrocks is just really nice
Evaluating u' will be tricky. If you want fixed points you can get it by taking a moving time average of a monitor point but I can't see an easy way of doing it spatially. You will probably need user fortran to do this, and even then it will be tricky.

You may be able to determine a sort of bulk flow velocity by mapping the velocity field to an additional variable with some dissipation on it. If you adjust the dissipation to give an appropriate level of smoothing this can give you an smoothed velocity field which you can then evaluate u' from. This might work.

So it is easy to evaluate it a monitor points as a post processing operation.
ghorrocks is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   November 4, 2010, 19:28
Default understood the method of obtaining the epsilon for LES
  #6
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 20
Rep Power: 17
rsin is on a distinguished road
Please refer to the article
http://leskandepsilon.blogspot.com/2...y-for-les.html
This article is based on the understanding of how to obtain epsilon for LES.

Cheers
maphd likes this.
rsin is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   August 30, 2015, 19:33
Default
  #7
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 32
Rep Power: 13
maphd is on a distinguished road
hello Rsin,

I want to calculate turbulent dissipation rate in LES in fluent 14. I looked at the article you suggested in your post above but couldn't understand.

Could you please give me some step by step calculations on how to do it in fluent?

Thanks,
maphd is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   August 31, 2015, 15:48
Unhappy turbulent dissipation rate in LES
  #8
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 32
Rep Power: 13
maphd is on a distinguished road
Hello,

No one has any idea of how to calculate turbulent dissipation rate in LES in FLUENT 14?
maphd is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   August 31, 2015, 19:14
Default
  #9
Super Moderator
 
Glenn Horrocks
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 17,871
Rep Power: 144
ghorrocks is just really niceghorrocks is just really niceghorrocks is just really niceghorrocks is just really nice
In the CFX forum, correct, we have no idea how to do this in fluent.

Try the fluent forum.
ghorrocks is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 3, 2015, 11:50
Default yes there is a simple way
  #10
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 20
Rep Power: 17
rsin is on a distinguished road
Dear maphd,

thes easiest way is to create a plane (otherwise the instanteneous data will be too much for each time-step, offcourse, the mean values can also be extracted at what ever time-step you want, i prefer instantaneous at each time step and mean (after each complete revolution)) in which you want to extract the data, so then select the 9 gradients of the velocity (along with any other aspects you want) to be extracted in that plane and the mean for the whole geometry.

Now, use matlab etc to create the EDR equation of the 12 gradients as shown by Adrian and Sharp for their PIV estimations.
9 graidents are available and the 3 gradients are constructed using the available ones because those are cross-product gradients.
Just remember to have sufficient amount of time-steps to achieve statistical convergence of the data. this convergence can be done using the extracted data in matlab etc.

is it clear?
Most importantly, it can be done in Fluent but not in the CFX.
Otherwise, going more theoretically, create gradients by yourself from each of the velocity components based on your grid (still these velocity components need to be extracted as well in a plane (instantenously) or whole geometry).
Cheers
rsin is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 3, 2015, 12:34
Default
  #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,880
Rep Power: 33
Opaque will become famous soon enough
Not that it matters since the work will be done in Fluent anyways. Could you please describe what cannot be done in CFX out of the workflow you described ?

The extraction of variables at a plane during the simulation ? or the extraction of the gradient variables during the simulation ? Otherwise, it seems just a series of formulas to be evaluated.

Thank you..
Opaque is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 3, 2015, 12:40
Default Dear Opaque
  #12
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 20
Rep Power: 17
rsin is on a distinguished road
CFX just doesnt give this option of the 9 gradients of the velocity to be extracted (i dont know if has changed in the lastest version till v 15, there wasnt such an option). These gradients will have to be estimated manually by creating them with the mesh size and the velocity components which will be extracted.

Extraction of variable can be done with ethe CFX as well, just there arent these 9 gradients available to be extracted. Is it clear enough?
Fluent provide all these options.
Cheers
rsin is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 3, 2015, 13:13
Default
  #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,880
Rep Power: 33
Opaque will become famous soon enough
Thank you..

Just for clarification, the access to gradient components for variables has been available since CFX5.5 (pre ANSYS CFX) via UserFortran, and since ANSYS CFX 11.0 via CEL using similar syntax as used in ANSYS CFD-Post.

If the direct access fails, you can always copy the variable into an additional variable and access the gradient of the copy.

A gradient component is available by using

Code:
[Fluid|Solid].[Material Component].<Variable|Additional Variable>.<Gradient X|Y|Z>

where 

[ ] means optional
< > means required
! means OR
Hope the above helps,
Opaque is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 3, 2015, 13:20
Default
  #14
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 20
Rep Power: 17
rsin is on a distinguished road
Thank you!

I perhaps never paid that much attention at the time i used to be working with CFX. In Fluent its direct.
Thanks anyways. Should help newcomers..and in the future!!
rsin is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Tags
eddy dissipation rate, les


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CFX12 rif errors romance CFX 4 October 26, 2009 14:41
Turbulent Eddy Dissipation in LES Patrick CFX 8 July 12, 2006 03:44
turbulence eddy dissipation rate panneerselvam.R CFX 0 August 25, 2005 05:51
turbulence eddy dissipation panneerselvam.R CFX 0 August 4, 2005 11:06
Dissipation rate access K. Kevala FLUENT 0 July 14, 2004 12:11


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 16:35.