Difference between turbomachinery and airplane wing simulations

Mohsin1 · December 22, 2023, 23:53

Hi can somebody please explain to me what's the difference between optimization simulation of turbomachinery and NACA0012/OneraM6 cases?

For NACA0012/OneraM6 cases, we have some objective function like Drag which we are minimizing by changing the shape.

Isn't it similar for the case of turbines or compressors? There we just want to minimize/maximize the torque or pressure loss etc. by changing the shape? So, turbine/compressor's blade is also a aerodynamic wing in a sense?

What am I missing?

Sorry, I'm new to the field that's why asking such a question.

chandrashekharapatankar · March 11, 2024, 01:06

Aircraft wings operate in relatively independent airflow. Their performance is primarily influenced by their own design and the overall airspeed.

turbine blades operate in close proximity, affecting each other's airflow. This creates a phenomenon called "wake interference." As one blade rotates, the disturbed air (wake) it leaves behind can impact the performance of the following blade. This can lead to a decrease in overall efficiency if not properly considered during design.

in turbine/compressor/pumps, blade spacing and twist matters more, since it has relative effects on each other

EDIT: pumps means impeller blades

bigfootedrockmidget · March 11, 2024, 04:22

We had a turbo workshop at the last SU2 conference, you can watch it here:
https://su2foundation.org/su2conference2023/

Tongtong1919 · May 9, 2024, 06:22

Dear Bigfootedrockmidget,

I am interested in employing SU2 for shape optimization of turbine blades to enhance aerodynamic performance (e.g., efficiency, pressure ratio, etc.). I am aware that SU2 offers various adjoint solvers tailored for airfoil development, including both continuous and discrete adjoint formulations. I would like to inquire whether the discrete adjoint solver designed for airfoils can be extrapolated to shape optimization of turbine blades. Your response would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

December 22, 2023, 23:53	Difference between turbomachinery and airplane wing simulations	#1
Mohsin1 New Member Mohsin Join Date: Jul 2023 Posts: 21 Rep Power: 3	Hi can somebody please explain to me what's the difference between optimization simulation of turbomachinery and NACA0012/OneraM6 cases? For NACA0012/OneraM6 cases, we have some objective function like Drag which we are minimizing by changing the shape. Isn't it similar for the case of turbines or compressors? There we just want to minimize/maximize the torque or pressure loss etc. by changing the shape? So, turbine/compressor's blade is also a aerodynamic wing in a sense? What am I missing? Sorry, I'm new to the field that's why asking such a question.

March 11, 2024, 01:06	yes but	#2
chandrashekharapatankar New Member chandrashekhar a patankar Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 3	Aircraft wings operate in relatively independent airflow. Their performance is primarily influenced by their own design and the overall airspeed. turbine blades operate in close proximity, affecting each other's airflow. This creates a phenomenon called "wake interference." As one blade rotates, the disturbed air (wake) it leaves behind can impact the performance of the following blade. This can lead to a decrease in overall efficiency if not properly considered during design. in turbine/compressor/pumps, blade spacing and twist matters more, since it has relative effects on each other EDIT: pumps means impeller blades Last edited by chandrashekharapatankar; March 11, 2024 at 01:07. Reason: to add info

March 11, 2024, 04:22		#3
bigfootedrockmidget Senior Member bigfoot Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Netherlands Posts: 676 Rep Power: 21	We had a turbo workshop at the last SU2 conference, you can watch it here: https://su2foundation.org/su2conference2023/

May 9, 2024, 06:22		#4
Tongtong1919 New Member Tongtong Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 24 Rep Power: 2	Dear Bigfootedrockmidget, I am interested in employing SU2 for shape optimization of turbine blades to enhance aerodynamic performance (e.g., efficiency, pressure ratio, etc.). I am aware that SU2 offers various adjoint solvers tailored for airfoil development, including both continuous and discrete adjoint formulations. I would like to inquire whether the discrete adjoint solver designed for airfoils can be extrapolated to shape optimization of turbine blades. Your response would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.