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September 6, 2004, 09:24
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Employment/Experience Help
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#1 |
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Guest
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Good afternoon everyone. My name is Russell Harrison.
I am sure there are many of you in the same position as me but as a desperate resort I am going to be cheeky and continue my plea. I graduated from Coventry University in 2003 with a 2.1 Hons degree in Automotive Engineering, in which I carried out a final year project on "The Experimental Investigation of Downforce in Motorsport". Since graduating from university, I have been developing my skills in CFD by self-learning codes such as CFX 5.6 and Fluent 6. I have also read a number of books to help understand the back ground to such codes. As I am sure you are all aware, gaining a position in industry as a CFD engineer is of difficulty with out PhD education, and even harder with out any creditable experience behind me. I am therefore asking/begging if there is anyone out there that may have a position open in industry or can offer me problems they need solving to gain creditable experience needed for my C.V. I would like to offer many thanks in advance to help that can be given Kind Regards Mr R.Harrison |
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September 8, 2004, 09:32
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Re: Employment/Experience Help
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#2 |
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Guest
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Yep,
Sadly this is an age old problem in U.K. I've been there! Not to name any names but the three major players in CFD market are very reluctant to take on anyone who doesn't have at least 4+ years experience in CFD. The PhD issue isn't so bad, as it can be an advantage not to have one! Keep looking mate, a lucky break will come, it did for me. Look on the following web sites for current jobs: www.jobsite.co.uk www.reed.co.uk www.totaljobs.com http://website.lineone.net/~john_stone/ Job Hunter |
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September 9, 2004, 18:17
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Re: Employment/Experience Help
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#3 |
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I've a PhD from the UK have been waiting for a lucky break for more than 6 months. Do you think it will come?when? It is absolutely too sad to go for this type of career.
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September 10, 2004, 05:28
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Re: Employment/Experience Help
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#4 |
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Guest
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If you're looking for a job in applications, apply to any of the automotive consultancies. It's only really the software development companies that require PhDs from their employees. Automotive consultancies are much more interested in people who can solve probelms using CFD (PhDs are generally good at avoiding work, hence the long "education"). CFDers with an experimental background are like gold dust. Most of the CFDers in my company came in as new graduates doing a tour of the company, before choosing to focus on CFD applications.
By way of example, I could (but won't) name people in the F1 business who cut their CFD teeth in automtive consulancy work. |
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September 11, 2004, 07:40
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Re: Employment/Experience Help
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#5 |
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Guest
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It's true that development companies need CFD engineers with PhD's, however, I still believe that a PhD in this field gives you the edge over self taught CFD bod.
Whilst CFD packages are becoming easier to use, understanding the numerics of what's going on within, can be a bonus when problems like divergence occur. Achieving high quality results using CFD is still quite an art no matter what CFD vendors say. This only comes with experience and knowledge of the numerical limitations of the code being used. A new graduate with 8 weeks tutorial experience using a commercial code will have very little understanding anything past setting up a basic mesh and getting simple flow solution. Issues like verification and validation are key to getting high quality CFD solutions, few undergrads will ever touch on this in any detail. Working for F1 companies is a bad move in my opinion, having talked to a few F1 CFD engineers over the years, they tend to get paid a lot less than CFD engineers in other business areas. The quality of their CFD simulations is very dubious, even though they throw massive computing resources at them (Parallel machines of 50+ nodes!). Putting 10 million cells around a F1 car will give you nothing more than in impressive flow visualisation tool! PhD or not, getting a job in this small field is hard. Keep sending the CV's out to every company that uses the software. Do you home work and find out which companies use the various commercial tools, its amazing the companies you find who have small departments implementing CFD. I think once you have had your first long term job in CFD you will be able to move around with ease. Job Hunter |
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September 11, 2004, 10:27
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Re: Employment/Experience Help
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#7 |
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Whilst most of your points are true, there are no "self taught CFD bods" in good automotive consulting companies. Generally there is a team who's number is above the critical mass for the discipline and contains world experts. The people that pass through that team will get 3-4 years worth of experience which is far better than sitting at (for example, Imperial College) earning peanuts doing the same work.
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September 11, 2004, 10:30
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Re: Employment/Experience Help
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#8 |
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Guest
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Come on "Job Hunter", give us a clue who you work for!
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September 11, 2004, 13:28
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Re: Employment/Experience Help
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#9 |
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Guest
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Well it seems that these automotive consulting companies like investing in people, it's a shame the aerospace industry has gone completely the other way.
I fully agree that on the job learning of CFD over 4+ years is a much better prospect than doing a PhD for the same length of time and enduring the stresses that all PhD's bring! Sadly there are a lot of "jack of all trades & master of none" CFD engineers out in the market which might be making it hard for qualified CFD guys/gals to get the small number of jobs that are out there. Good CFD engineers are like hens teeth to get hold of; they must all be in the automotive industry! Another option might be the U.S. There seems to be a steady number of CFD positions advertised on the web, but getting a work permit then becomes the issue. Keep Hunting Job Hunter |
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September 12, 2004, 15:10
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Re: Employment/Experience Help
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#10 |
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Thanks for all your replies guys, it seems there is quite a personsal preference to doing a Phd or the Job route.
How is the best way to find out what compaines use CFD?? |
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September 13, 2004, 09:40
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Re: Employment/Experience Help
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#11 |
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In the auto business, all the OEMs (e.g. Ford, VW, Honda, GM, etc) and most engineering suppliers (E.g. Lotus, Ricardo, AVL, FEV, etc) do. And most of them have licenses of more than one CFD code (often a couple of general purpose ones, plus a niche code).
If you can get in at the graduate-recruitment level in any of these companies, you should be able to get into CFD either by planned training/career development or by a bit of stealthy job-creep. Don't open a trade mag and apply for "CFD engineer" jobs. They'll want a specialist with X years experience. |
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September 13, 2004, 11:44
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Re: Employment/Experience Help
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#12 |
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Guest
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Thanks Steve, thats where I have been looking mainly, for specific CFD Jobs. The market for employment at the major Car manufacturers is a tough battlefield so this can be often difficult.
What about normal compaines that use CFD, that are just fluid dynamic based and not just vehicle manufacturers |
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September 13, 2004, 17:11
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Re: Employment/Experience Help
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#13 |
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Guest
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Also, is it better to add the letters to do with your degree after your name on your C.V or have it just as your name??
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October 18, 2004, 09:49
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Re: Employment/Experience Help
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#14 |
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I don't essentially think that working for 3-4 years is any more beneficial than doing a PhD for a similar time scale.
I'm doing a PhD in CFD, and have spent a lot of time trying to figure out why a custom-written code doesn't work, and of course, running simulations and analysing data. I have friends who work in the nuclear energy industry, and a quick chat with them shows that my CFD work is of a far more complex level than they will ever reach using standard CFD packages like Fluent and Phoenix. I guess it's horses for courses. I have no real knowledge of using standard CFD packages because they do no suit my needs, although I'm sure with the background I now have, I (and other CFD PhD students) could pick it up quite quickly. I'm sure the same applies the other way around too - working in industry for 3-4 years would give people the skills to do the detailed work that a PhD requires. |
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