The computer time was free, just a simple workstation. Fluent is free to universities. I did travel to Germany to learn CFX - so that cost me $4000 for a two month stay (but I treated it like a vacation as well).

I really don't know how long I could work like this. If small businesses are coming to me (on their own) with money, what would happen if I went searching for more? Who knows, but I think there are many opportunities out there right now. I think some people could make a fortune as consultants, does anyone else agree?

I think our young friend Scott W. has been up to no good using an educational license to support commercial work. I wouldn't be bragging about that type of thing over a public message board, the wrong person at AEA might just be listening in ...

Unless of course you used your considerable skills to whip up your own code to help these inventors out.

George

Good point George, we probably should start a new thread and discuss it. No, my own codes pale in comparison to commercial programs.

As far as I can tell, the educational licenses are available for two reasons: 1) The nice companies want to give back to society. 2) When we learn to use CFD in our classes, then we are likely to purchase licenses in the industry.

I choose to follow step (2), if someone wants to donate money to the university then I will create a simple model of their process. Then, if they want more, I request that they purchase their own license and I'm willing to help train them to use it.

If any company is angry that I got them several more customers, I'm sorry. My email address is located above, and if emailed I will tell those businesses that they shouldn't have ordered Fluent. And I will stop being a walking advertisement. If any company requests that I continue finding customers for them, I will do that too.

Hi Scott,

You are correct, commercial CFD companies give out cheap licenses to educational institutions so that students will learn their packages and perhaps purchase them in the future. This only entails working on student projects and the like. I highly doubt that they are taking the high moral ground and 'giving back to society'. In the real world, all companies are driven by the profit motive!

When a student begins to use these packages for profit, the educational license is no longer suitable. This is regardless of whether or not you are attracting new customers.

What happens to the engineer who is running a consulting business and paying big bucks to support both a computer and a commercial license when a student comes along and starts to undercut their rates. I think you would agree that this is not exactly ethical.

If you want to start a CFD consulting business, by all means get a loan and purchase both a computer and a license. I applaud your initiative and hope that you do well in the future, maybe I'll even give you some work.

George

You could say the same about all university research. At least in my university, virtually all engineering grad students are paid for their work. The students - who often get paid less than minimum wage - will undercut any professional consultants. It is the state of education today, and if that is unethical we have a major problem. I see companies all the time that would rather sponser two students to do the research than hire a full time engineer.

I have no interest in becoming a consultant (I just want to publish a few papers and write a thesis on these projects), but I do think there is money available. So many people would use CFD, but they don't even know it exists. It may be hard work, but T (the original message poster) can find these people and earn a living.

(1). cfd forum is a flea market. The items are at most worth 2cents. (2). CFD forum is not CFD. (3). Commercial CFD code is not CFD. (4). Running a commercial CFD code is not CFD. (5). And there is no money in CFD. (6). CFD is not a trade mark. So, if one can make money with CFD attached, then I don't have any objection at all. (7). Since a commercial cfd code is not cfd, a school should not be using it at all. A school should teach student CFD, but not how to use a black box with CFD printed on the outside (especially for the purpose of making money). We really don't know what is inside a black box, do you? (8). My suggestion is: keep the commercial cfd codes outside the school, and CFD does not deal with money making at all. CFD is "Numerical Analysis and Mathematical Modelling in Fluid Dynamics". Like anything else, it requires knowledge of computer programming, geometry modelling, etc... And based on my several years experience in using commercial cfd codes, results obtained so far are not satisfactory.

This question is general ,so general that it forces one to ask-was there "ever money" in CFD.

Such an open ended question was asked in my days by everyone pursuing a career. You need hard figures for comparisons. Then find that a football player, film star ,lawyer,doctor,finacial dealer and so forth get supposedly what market forces say they are worth?.

A better question for a talented but adaptable person who understands physics,maths and statistics and can translate that acumen into problem solving: is find out which problems pay for the best solutions.

(1). Thirty years ago, when I was doing my graduate study, I had to take a course in numerical analysis. (2). The reference book used was a very large book, with detailed theoretical derivation, sample problem and analysis, detailed line-by-line FORTRAN codes and results, many useful study problems. (3). And that was only a regular course in engineering school. And we had to turn in the home work using FORTRAN. (4). In those days, the IBM360 was the computer and the each line of the program must be coded on the paper card using keypunch machine. So, the keypunch room next to the computer room is always busy. (5). The was no CFD course, no commercial cfd codes, no cfd forum. (6). Today, with the fluctuation in stock market, the cost cutting is the number one issue with industries management. Cutting the research group, in-house development, replacing it with some commercial cfd codes, hiring some young kids and force the early retirement, using temporary contractors,etc... (7). With the continuing activities of company merger, the process is going on ,over and over again. To show the efficiency and stay in job, engineers are forced to show that he can learn how to do tricks using a commercial code to get a faster solution than the traditional approach without knowing what he is using, or what he is getting. He does not care, because the company is public. The managers do not care, for the same reason. (8). In the end, experienced engineers retired, good engineers left, and the company is now in the hands of another company. It is a never ending cycle. The idea of using commercial cfd codes in the process becomes the tools to destroy the company. And that was the original idea of using the off-the-shelf commercial codes, the temporary contractors, etc... (9). From the cfd forum, we know that some schools have start doing the same, using the commercial cfd codes, instead of teaching the numerical analysis course and programming in FORTRAN. (hoping that their students can get a job in the dying industries as soon as possible.) (10). So, currently there is no money in CFD in the traditional sense. Every company is trying to cut cost, and developing codes takes time and money. But, if you are talking about the use of a commecial code, then I think, there are still jobs around. Unfortunately, following my analysis and experience, those companies are dying very quickly, large or small. (11). The number one interest seems to be the policy of maintaining the 17% EPS by the company CEO. This has been so for the last several years. (12). To use commercial cfd codes was shown to be able to cut development cost, so it was used. Now, to cut the cost further, one can easily eliminate the commercial cfd code activities all together. A manager knows all of these approaches. (no one is interested in convergence, accuracy of results, as long as you have something for the next meeting. The schedule is very important, because time is money in the eyes of a manager.) (13). The real CFD problems remain unsolved, and I think, it is good. CFD is war, not because it deals with war itself, but because it is part of a bigger war game. That is to defeat or take over other companies in the stock market. (14). So, if you still have any doubt about the CFD future, please read my messages posted two years and eight months ago on the CFD War Principles.

Fred is absolutely right. you have to remember that when you go out into the working world as an engineer with an MS of PhD in CFD the human resources manager at your company cares not whether you got it doing CFD or Tribology or anything else. they're going to look up the pay scale and give you the "PhD with x years experience pay".

I'd say there are three areas that CFD people go into after school:

-academia: they become professors. A lot of people don't realise but being a professor is quite potentially lucrative and the hours are great. You do have to bust your ass for tenure though but once you get it you can be an asshole and put your name on all your student's papers.

-industry: here you'd be an employee for GE, Pratt and Whitney, Boeing etc the traditional companies that use CFD in aircraft and turbomachinery design. here you'd be valued, people would think you're really smart but you'd get paid as much as they guy down the hall who's a manafacturing engineer. On the other hand you could go work for the non-traditional users of CFD. Increasingly this is the process industry, makers of liquid and air handling devices. You'd mostly work with commercial code and you manager would wonder why you can't ever get converged results like the FEM structural guys down the hall despite the fact that he bought you all this expensive software and hardware. again they'd slot you in the pay scale.

-commercial code vendor: i can't tell you about this except that they always try to sell code that can do every damn thing known to man including simulating Mach three, combusting, turbulent, unsteady flow through a fluidized bed.

In addition you have the guys who simply realize after years of hunching their backs writing CFD code that they're pretty good programmers and they go work for some software company.

this is not an all-inclusive list and should be taken w/ a grain of salt. Remember you need to be balanced engineer to be a good CFD engineer. I've met too many CFD engineers who know CFD up and down and are good at fluid dynamics too but don't have a good grasp of the solid structures that their flids push and pull on.

As for money. if you want "crass lucre" get an MBA

hi cfd is vast field, so if you are intrested in phd and research in cfd, then you can think of developing your own CFD software and if you are good in marketing, you can also find a suitable franchise.

ultimately it all depends on intrests, if you just to be application engineer just start learning CFD software rightway in your institute,and try to solve as many problems related to your engineering field, in cfd software like fluent5 etc. in order to develope CFD source codes,you should be quite good in maths and particular engineering field you are into, in this way you will also be doing lot of programming, and you will be far ahead of a common programmer.

(1). Please do say something, because it costs the reader to open the message, regardless of whether it is empty or not. (2). The world is not perfect, ideal, or even trouble free. So, feel free to express yourself and make yourself comfortable here.

(2). The world is not perfect, ideal, or even trouble free

How can it be when you are in it.

(1). Well, good thinking. (2). As long as I am here, there will be cfd forum.

Yeah, John has been teaching CFD 101 for dummies for couple years, I believe. But dummies keep on coming almost every day. John is never going to be jobless, I am positive. And, at least, he'll learn something out of it.

(1). CFD forum is not my primary interest. It is just a place to exercise my brain. (2). But if people keep coming back, then I will probably leak some tips from time to time. (2). CFD is the way to go and it has a bright future. How to do it right, is perhaps the key issue. I have not touched that issue yet. So, don't go away, keep tuned to this channel.