(1). When I am writing, I just want to write in different ways. When I am answering a question, I just want to find words to match the question. Frankly speaking, the person(s) who presented the question was never in my mind. Strictly speaking, when I am writing, I have no respect for the person(s) who will read the message. To achieve that personal respect, it is necessary to know the person (properly introduced in person), to see his body language, and to hear his voice to properly interpret the meaning of the message. So, this is the basic understanding of the Internet messages and information. (2). You can look for an item for sale, a store locations on the map ( I was amazed that I was able to find the location of my home in the Internet map, by simply typing the address in the map search.) So, the Internet is a useful and practical place to find someting helpful. This is how we should use the Internet. (3).If you can not look directly into someone's eyes, then it is not possible to detect the real meaning of the message. In other words, one can not interpret the meaning of the Internet message correctly. That is the limitation of the Internet message. (4). In other words, Internet messages are ideal for technical information. That is also the nature of the cfd-online and the forum. We can not expect the messages to represent the person, we also can not expect the messages to express its emotional reaction. Any messages trying to express these factors will obviously fail. (5). After having said that, it becomes clear that the cfd-online and the forum is like a warehouse, where items are arranged on the shelf systematically and the customers are constantly looking for the items he needs for his project. From time to time, the customer will ask the clerk for the location of some items, and the clerk will provide the direction. And these directions are now illustrated clearly, step-by-step on the wall of the warehous. So, by reading the chart on the wall, the customer can easily find the needed items from the shelf by himself. So, what's the main difference? The main difference is that: the items on the shelf are donated by the persons who support the cfd-online and forum. And the inventory list is donated by some customers who support the forum. (6). With this in mind, it is easier to obtain the optimum efficiency of the cfd-online and the forum. A more practical way to look at it is, it is a food center where the donated canned food is stored. And the needy people can go over there to find the food they need. So, the other characteristics of this place is that this is not the place where you can learn how to make a quick money in real estate. It is a place where you can solve your free lunch problem when needed. (7). We know it is not always possible to act like a robot when surfing the Internet. But there is not much you can do, when you are looking at your own monitor screen and trying to get mad at someone, who is somewhere behind the screen, deep into the phone wiring, and far away in other country. (8). It is interesting to know that, the invention of the Internet was to bring people closer, while in reality, it simply can not reach that goal. It is more or less a faster mail system. It can not even compete with the FAX system for speed. FAX is the one I use when I need to send someone messages right away. (9). After over two years, we think, this food bank now has some donated food for the needy people. I think, more is needed. And if you are not satisfied with the taste of the canned food, remember that there are still people with nothing to eat. (10). You don't have to like the food bank. But if you can look at it as a mirror, you can still avoid the sink holes somewhere on the street. (11). That's how I look at the cfd-online and the forum. And that is the state of the cfd and the forum. (12). Would like to hear your view of the forum and the cfd-online. (I am not surprised to hear that it is a group of retarded persons trying to put together a picture of a big white elephant.) Good night and have a good dream.

The state of cfd and the forum

This version is dedicated to those who sent e-mail to me requesting for an easier to read version, thanks.

(1). When I am writing, I just want to write in different ways. When I am answering a question, I just want to find words to match the question.

Frankly speaking, the person(s) who presented the question was never in my mind. Strictly speaking, when I am writing, I have no respect for the person(s) who will read the message.

To achieve that personal respect, it is necessary to know the person (properly introduced in person), to see his body language, and to hear his voice to properly interpret the meaning of the message. So, this is the basic understanding of the Internet messages and information.

(2). You can look for an item for sale, a store locations on the map ( I was amazed that I was able to find the location of my home in the Internet map, by simply typing the address in the map search.) So, the Internet is a useful and practical place to find someting helpful. This is how we should use the Internet.

(3).If you can not look directly into someone's eyes, then it is not possible to detect the real meaning of the message. In other words, one can not interpret the meaning of the Internet message correctly. That is the limitation of the Internet message.

(4). In other words, Internet messages are ideal for technical information. That is also the nature of the cfd-online and the forum. We can not expect the messages to represent the person, we also can not expect the messages to express its emotional reaction. Any messages trying to express these factors will obviously fail.

(5). After having said that, it becomes clear that the cfd-online and the forum is like a warehouse, where items are arranged on the shelf systematically and the customers are constantly looking for the items he needs for his project.

From time to time, the customer will ask the clerk for the location of some items, and the clerk will provide the direction. And these directions are now illustrated clearly, step-by-step on the wall of the warehous. So, by reading the chart on the wall, the customer can easily find the needed items from the shelf by himself.

So, what's the main difference? The main difference is that: the items on the shelf are donated by the persons who support the cfd-online and forum. And the inventory list is donated by some customers who support the forum.

(6). With this in mind, it is easier to obtain the optimum efficiency of the cfd-online and the forum. A more practical way to look at it is, it is a food center where the donated canned food is stored. And the needy people can go over there to find the food they need.

So, the other characteristics of this place is that this is not the place where you can learn how to make a quick money in real estate. It is a place where you can solve your free lunch problem when needed.

(7). We know it is not always possible to act like a robot when surfing the Internet. But there is not much you can do, when you are looking at your own monitor screen and trying to get mad at someone, who is somewhere behind the screen, deep into the phone wiring, and far away in other country.

(8). It is interesting to know that, the invention of the Internet was to bring people closer, while in reality, it simply can not reach that goal.

It is more or less a faster mail system. It can not even compete with the FAX system for speed. FAX is the one I use when I need to send someone messages right away.

(9). After over two years, we think, this food bank now has some donated food for the needy people. I think, more is needed. And if you are not satisfied with the taste of the canned food, remember that there are still people with nothing to eat.

(10). You don't have to like the food bank. But if you can look at it as a mirror, you can still avoid the sink holes somewhere on the street.

(11). That's how I look at the cfd-online and the forum. And that is the state of the cfd and the forum.

(12). Would like to hear your view of the forum and the cfd-online. (I am not surprised to hear that it is a group of retarded persons trying to put together a picture of a big white elephant.)

Good night and have a good dream.

Dear Mr. Chien. I have only one thing to say before I stop reading any mail you put out in the future. To be honest I'm tired of you complaining. If you don't like something then do something about it. You seem to spend alot of time on this forum (seeing though you attempt to answer every question put out). If you have a better way of implimenting this site then I would suggest to you to spend your time more positively and build one yourself. If its better then people will come. If not, then you have some experience with web design and you can go to web-design.com and answer every question there.

John

You are doing a good job. Dont get disheartened. We are all with you

Regards

Other Person

(1). In CFD, if you kill your enemy, you can not survive.

(2). So, the art is to keep the enemy alive, so you are justified to live.

(3). Getting rid of your enemy will make you the same as your enemy, thus you can not live.

(4). My theory is: it is impossible to change a person, and it is useless to force the system to change. So, the result is "to get rid of the person you don't like". And that is the principle behind the Olympic games. You don't want to change the other person to get rid of you. Except that, they have to follow a rule.

(5). If you do the research of the messages I posted at the begining of the forum two years ago, then you will find the CFD WAR Principles.

(6). The other nature of CFD is of "War Nature". The big fish eat the small fish. It is a vivid play in the cfd forum, in real time. (Why are Chinese so anxious to announce its website here? It is so obvious. Not because they like me!)

(7). You come here to present differnt messages, to keep the forum and cfd alive.

(8). If you don't get good cfd results, you have to keep trying. That is the cfd business, research, and forum.

(9). Anyway, the idea is to fill up this forum with something. Someting you like, something you don't like, something you hate, something you love. It is the process of doing so, which is the goal. (hopefully with a rule)

(10). Based on my cfd war principle, if I don't like this place, I can wait for someone to take over this place. The big fish is always hungry, it can eat small fish, it can also eat the websites.

(11). By the way, I have been thinking about creating other cfd websites, and I have done search on the new names. I have studied a long list of names. But life is not just "black and white", there are other colors, other options, other programming approaches.

(12). As I have said before, cfd is war, you can't trust anyone, including yourself. That is the reason why you need to learn the mesh independent solution principle in cfd. (or you will end up like the Ford firestone tires. The failure rate of cfd solution is well above that of firestone tires)

(13). cfd forum is a place to exercise my brain, I need it, expecially when I have just washed my car. My brain also needs some exercises. (can I open many new cfd websites? sure, you need patience.)

(14). You are still thinking that the messages posted is a person. Actually, in cfd, a code is not a code, because it is usually a dead body sold to some companies many times. The time the readers begin to attach his emotion to the messages, the person has already finished his brain exercise, and on his way to the supermarket.

(15). I don't think that you can ask the Fluent company to limit their market share, so others will have a chance to sell their products (to post the message). If Microsoft is not doing that, I think, it is better for our forum readers to learn some skill here first. (can't survive as a newspaper reporter. )

(16). The art is to promote cfd and the forum, at the same time get the readers to learn the real cfd survival skill. So, you can have an Olympic games to play.

(17). In the cfd war, what you see is not always there. And what you have is not always true. If you see a message, and it is not there, then it is perfectly all right to present your answer as the first answer to the question. "You must learn this skill, you must learn how to turn your brain on and off"!!!! in order to survive in the very competitive cfd world, where only the best can survive.

(1). The title of the message was changed not based on the technical contents, thus, it has no respect, which is consistent with the name.

(2).As I have said before, it is the responsibility of the forum readers to decide on what to read, or how to use the contents of the messages. I as a person is not interested in the readers brain activities.

(3). The person does not exist in the forum, it is the messages you are reading. Like the stock market, there is no way to predict the index. So there is no way to predict the forum readers brain activities. The ups and the downs are all part of the index.

(4). No forum, then no messages posted. No question, then no answers posted.

(5). Stop the questions posted, then you won't find the answers. Stop the forum, then you won't find questions posted. Keep your eyes closed, then it's gone. But this will not change the solution into mesh independent solution. It also will not change a dead body into a live cfd code.

(6)I can't change your message title, and I can't change your brain activities. But you will have to try harder to put some cfd related words in the message.

Hi I believe that we all share the enthusiasm of finding answers to the questions that were embeded in nature. The life in its most beautifull context is full of wars. I personally can't afford of doing something like this, participating in a war! I enjoyed all of the messages relating to my interests, I prefer to be a good professional in the future like you mr chien. I also think about to post good answers to the other peoples questions one day as smooth as you do and make them undrestand the beauties of the nature. I also have a suggestion and it is to make this forum a place to have the ability of showing formats like pdf in the cases as we sought for sophisticated thoretical discussions, I even think that even it is usefull to have a theory forum in parallel to this so called computerized and algorythmic one. As we all now the codes and results of these codes are all stem from someone's theoretical studies of a physical or mathematical phenomena. And I also wish that some day all of those people who are doing scientific jobs can make this life a little bit better. May be some day someone can through light on some dark point beyond the humans knowledge border and we can feel good by his success. Life is very short and has so many beauties hidden in it. Wish you all the best that can happen to a scientist.

By the way, I realy enjoy reading answers to questions and watching all the forum move ahead. Reza

(1).I have been using the computer quite heavily recently, at work and after work. (2). So, my right hand is hurting me. I think, it comes from the use of the mouse, especially doing geometry and mesh generation and editing. (3). And my feet also need some exercise. So, the best way to do is to stay away from the computer and the chair, if possible. (4). I think, I am going to do more walking from now on, to get my hand and feet relaxed. (4). As for the discussions related to the equations and the theoretical part, I think, it is easier to use the e-mail with the picture attached (write equations as picture). The other advantage is that equations require additional time for thinking, so, e-mail is better. (5). The website is trying to be real time, otherwise, no one has the patience to wait. A picture normally takes a long time to load, not to mention the Internet traffic. (6). So, a high density text message is the most efficient way to reach the other end. (like the one you are reading) So, I think I will miss you for a while.

John, don`t be railroaded and keep up your highly informative contributions in this quite exhaustive field. As you will recall YOU MADE EXCELLENT contributions toward my comprehensive internet site dealing with rotodynamic pumping technology http://x-stream.fortunecity.com/laras/63/

The beauty of this forum is that it attempts to help everyone from the everyday practioners with specific difficulty areas to those keen to brush up on their fields of interest. I for one enjoy reading the questions and your answers. best wishes.ken

I will respond to this philistine by simply making comments. John wanted us to say what we thought about the forum and what it has meant to us. it was not a criticism in any way of the forum. In the time that I have been a regularly been a poster on the forum I have criticized John on the way he writes some of his posts. mainly I've asked him to keep his responses simple and answer the question when one is asked but he or anyone here is always free to respond to quetion in anyway. Most of us only ask that they be civil and John always is. In response to this message I will say that it exemplifies two of the ills I've seen on this forum. (1)An inability to discuss the philosophy of what we are doing (ie CFD). Often we debate technical issues; this scheme vs that scheme, C or fortran or seek technical answers to questions such as "where can I find a paper on multigrid in unsteady problems" etc. However the forum does suffer from the lack of discussion of what do we want from CFD codes, how it fits into the engineering process, or other more vague ideas that we as highly trained engineers should be engaged in. I recognize that many of our posters do not write English at the level that is perhaps good enough to discuss issues at such a high level but that is the nature of the internet: it is international. personally I read and write only engish to any great degree of skill but I wouldn't mind if large portions of this discussion were in say french or cantonese. It is more important to me that the posters to this group are learning from each other about things that they are interested in. And perhaps being turned on to things that they may not have been aware or cognizant of.

(2) the second issue I have with the forum is the lack of thought that is placed into many replies. again i'm not talking about technical errors, I've made them myself. I recal a time when I told a poster to overspecify his boundary conditions. to be technically wrong is no embarassment but when someone posts a message like the one to which I'm replying that totally misses the point of a philosophical post I'm very disappointed. this person did not even come close to understanding John's message and probably may never do so but he still felt that he could personally attack John without having a clear understanding of John's post. it is ironic because one of John's main points was that we cannot get a full understanding of a person's thinking by reading his words. yet this person who it seems has a good command of the English language missed the point by a mile. in closing i'd like to say that the quality of the forum depends on the people who post. It doesn't matter that Jonas has changed the color of the posting box or that the site loads a lot faster than it used to. It is more important that the forum remains a place where we can come to find information or a place where we can come to give out our information and feel important about ourselves

Dear John C. Chien,

I am a regular reader of this discussion forum. Yes, regularly I read the discussions which are relevant to me. Rarely I put the topics for discussion.

I have following comments on the forum.

1) First, I appreciate your efforts for creating and maintaining this forum. Scond, to those who use this forum Because without users the forum is not forum. Hence, I appreciate those who constantly contribute their precious knowledge and experience to the discussion forum. This forum provides a good medium for this contribution.

2) Some topics get repeated many times. is it possible to create a bank which will store such topics. I know it will require lot of efforts.

3) If possible, can we create a mailing list for all the persons in CFD. There is a large groupof persons who have company provided email address, but do not have access to internet. All the contents and topics which are currently under discussion can be mailed to all those who are in the mailing list.

The forum is really a good medium to keep all CFD fellows upto date.

with regards Pargaonkar Vijay