CFD Online Logo CFD Online URL
www.cfd-online.com
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > General Forums > Main CFD Forum

Accurate Physical meaning of 'Blocking wall effect' of Spalart Allmaras model

Register Blogs Community New Posts Updated Threads Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old   March 22, 2022, 08:38
Question Accurate Physical meaning of 'Blocking wall effect' of Spalart Allmaras model
  #1
Senior Member
 
-
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: -
Posts: 139
Rep Power: 5
FluidKo is on a distinguished road
Hello everyone

I have a question of Spalart Allmaras Model.

What does 'blocking wall effect' mean physically?

In Spalart Allmaras model, destruction of turbulence is proportion to turbulence and is inversely proportion to distance.
I want to know why Spalart and Allmaras think like that.
How they get that inspiration in terms of physics?

Here is my guess why Spalart and Allmaras claim like that.
If it is not right, please tell me the accurate reason why they claim like that.

"Destruction of turbulence viscosity is inversely proportion to distance."
I've seen below sentence.
"there is a “blocking effect” from a wall that is felt at a distance by the pressure and acts as a destruction entity for the Reynolds shear stress"
I don't understand accurate meaning of this sentence because I'm not good at English.
But I've guessed the meaning of this sentence like below.
Let's assume there is a flow that is forwarding to the wall.
It can be both mean flow and fluctuating flow.
As wall is approached, pressure nearby wall is risen.
Because there is a stagnation point nearby wall and we can see pressure rise from Bernoulli's equation.
Therefore I think eddy can't rotate and fluctuate to the wall because high pressure of stagnation point is blocking the motion of eddy.
This is why I think destruction of turbulence viscosity is inversely proportion to the distance from the wall.
If eddy want to rotate and fluctuate actively, eddy should be placed far from the wall.

"Destruction of turbulence viscosity is proportion to turbulence viscosity itself."
High turbulence viscosity means there is a active rotation of eddy.
Eddy mixes up and down actively for high turbulence viscosity.
But if eddy is too big, eddy used to dive into viscous sublayer where molecule viscosity is dominant by No slip condition.
It means big eddy used to be destructed by molecule viscosity(No slip condition)
Big eddy can't rotate perfectly and be attached to the wall by No slip condition.
I think this is why turbulence viscosity is proportion to turbulence viscosit itself.

These are just my guess.
Is it right?
If there is something wrong please tell me the accurate reason of why Spallart and Allmaras claim like that.
Thanks
FluidKo is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   March 23, 2022, 02:28
Smile Answer of this question
  #2
Senior Member
 
-
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: -
Posts: 139
Rep Power: 5
FluidKo is on a distinguished road
I've asked this question to professor Spalart by e-mail.
And Thankfully he has answered to me.

Destruction of turbulence viscosity is inversely proportion to distance.
The reason of this is same with my opinion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Destruction of turbulence viscosity is inversely proportion to distance."
I've seen below sentence.
"there is a “blocking effect” from a wall that is felt at a distance by the pressure and acts as a destruction entity for the Reynolds shear stress"
I don't understand accurate meaning of this sentence because I'm not good at English.
But I've guessed the meaning of this sentence like below.
Let's assume there is a flow that is forwarding to the wall.
It can be both mean flow and fluctuating flow.
As wall is approached, pressure nearby wall is risen.
Because there is a stagnation point nearby wall and we can see pressure rise from Bernoulli's equation.
Therefore I think eddy can't rotate and fluctuate to the wall because high pressure of stagnation point is blocking the motion of eddy.
This is why I think destruction of turbulence viscosity is inversely proportion to the distance from the wall.
If eddy want to rotate and fluctuate actively, eddy should be placed far from the wall.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason why destruction of turbulence is proportion to turbulence itself is different with my opinion.
I've considered molecule viscosity(No slip condition) but assumption of this model is inviscid flow.
So adapting molecule viscosity is not adequate to this model.
Then why destruction of turbulence is proportion to turbulence itself?
It is just same reason with reason why destruction of turbulence is inversely proportion to distance.
As distance becomes longer, mixing length becomes longer and it means turbulence and turbulence viscosity also become higher.
So relation between turbulence intensity and destruction of turbulence viscosity is just in the same context with relation between destruction of turbulence viscosity and distance.

Thanks
I dedicated this letter to professor Spalart.
FluidKo is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Tags
blocking wall effect, destruction, spalart allmaras model, turbulence viscosity


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
To use wall functions or not? y+ = 1 with Spalart Allmaras Ony OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD 1 May 25, 2021 19:51
Centrifugal fan j0hnny CFX 13 October 1, 2019 14:55
Radiation in semi-transparent media with surface-to-surface model? mpeppels CFX 11 August 22, 2019 08:30
Wrong multiphase flow at rotating interface Sanyo CFX 14 February 7, 2017 18:19
Multicomponent fluid Andrea CFX 2 October 11, 2004 06:12


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:57.