Particle data export

Mu_CFD · February 9, 2019, 12:29

Hi everybody,

I've been working in a study of a venturi scrubber with a multiphase steady state flow composed of air (continuous fluid) and water (particle transport fluid). In total, there are 100 particles (droplets of water). The particle aoupling used is Fully Coupled.

The idea was to divide the geometry due to hardware limitations (it is simulating an industril equipment so that it's a big domain. So far I could export the air velocity profile from outlet1 and use it as boundary condition at inlet2 (File>Export>Type BC Profile>Location INLET1> Profile Type Inlet direction).

part1.jpg

I've also exported the whole particle track from the first simulation and see it in the second one (File> Export > Type BC Profile> Location Particle Track 1> Profile Type Inlet diretion) but I coldn't use it as boundary conditions
.
part2.jpg

The idea is to see the particles track also in second simulation but so far I wasn't able to. Could some one help me? It would be very helpfull in developing my study.

Any questions that you may have, be my guest.

Thank you a lot.

Mu_CFD · February 25, 2019, 22:25

Is there anybody who can help me?

Thx a lot

manut · May 6, 2019, 13:13

Hello,
Did you come up with the solution?
I am working on something similar where I need to import particle profile data from different solution and it is not so straightforward to set.

BR

Gert-Jan · May 6, 2019, 17:03

What you can try is:
1) setup your first case. In OutputControl>Export define a CFX CSV export file with particle information on the outlet.
2) run the simulation to generate the csv-file.
3) setup the second case.
4) import the csv-file as profile data (Under Tools)
5) Look for "Injection region" in the top ribbon. This menu allows injection positions from a Profile.

I never gone through this whole process (my computer is large, no need to split up my geometry), but you could give it a try.

Forgot to mention, From the first case you also need the oulet velocity profile of the continuous phase. In Post you can export this as profile data and import it in CFX-Pre as inlet profile of your second case.

manut · May 7, 2019, 05:39

Thank you for prompt answer.
I have remodeled my domain as I need velocity profile from a plane which is not a boundary condition. Presumably you cannot export bc profile from nothing else than bc (?).
Particle injection regions are available from:
Domain > Particle Injection Regions > …
but here you can only choose between 3 predefined options (Cone, Cone with primary breakup, Sphere). Unless this option shows up when particle data are uploaded?
Data set to be exported in Output control are in slightly different format than those exported (File > Export > Export > BC profile) and could not be uploaded via Tools > Initialize Profile Data.
It is also impossible to export Particle data via File > Export procedure because this warning pops up:
"The following variables are not present in the geometry and will be omitted from the exported data …".
What could be the best approach to upload particle profile data?
I can somehow modify exported data to match required format but I don't think it should be like that.

BR

Gert-Jan · May 7, 2019, 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by manut

Thank you for prompt answer.
I have remodeled my domain as I need velocity profile from a plane which is not a boundary condition. Presumably you cannot export bc profile from nothing else than bc (?).
Particle injection regions are available from:
Domain > Particle Injection Regions > …
but here you can only choose between 3 predefined options (Cone, Cone with primary breakup, Sphere). Unless this option shows up when particle data are uploaded?
Data set to be exported in Output control are in slightly different format than those exported (File > Export > Export > BC profile) and could not be uploaded via Tools > Initialize Profile Data.
It is also impossible to export Particle data via File > Export procedure because this warning pops up:
"The following variables are not present in the geometry and will be omitted from the exported data …".
What could be the best approach to upload particle profile data?
I can somehow modify exported data to match required format but I don't think it should be like that.

BR

Did you try this injection region? That is not a predefined spray shape.
Btw, this is v19.2

manut · May 7, 2019, 08:15

I have 18.2 and do not see this option.
Eventually I can migrate to 19.2 but I share results with others so it might take some time.

Could you think of some other way?
I tried to export these data but it always gives me a warning that it is not present which is strange as according to documentation it, as a default, writes these data.

Gert-Jan · May 7, 2019, 08:43

No I don't know any other option. You could ask ANSYS if it the option is already available as hidden beta feature in v18.2.
Look in the options of CFX-Pre where you can enable beta features.

manut · May 7, 2019, 09:59

Thank you, I was not aware that I can enable beta features.
Unfortunately it is not available in 18.2 even as a beta feature. I guess I will upgrade to 19.2.

BR

Mu_CFD · September 19, 2020, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gert-Jan

What you can try is:
1) setup your first case. In OutputControl>Export define a CFX CSV export file with particle information on the outlet.
2) run the simulation to generate the csv-file.
3) setup the second case.
4) import the csv-file as profile data (Under Tools)
5) Look for "Injection region" in the top ribbon. This menu allows injection positions from a Profile.

I never gone through this whole process (my computer is large, no need to split up my geometry), but you could give it a try.

Forgot to mention, From the first case you also need the oulet velocity profile of the continuous phase. In Post you can export this as profile data and import it in CFX-Pre as inlet profile of your second case.

Hi Gert-Jan,

I'm trying to transfer de particle data as you said and I'm almost there. This is definitely the way.

I choose the option in OutputControl>Export in Pre-CFX and selected all the variables related to the particle. They are particle thansport solids of aluminium and 4 micron of diameter with a continous phase of air by the way.

It seems to work properly but I don't know where are the file generated because there is no option to select a folder, for example. In CFD-Post I export the velocity profile in File>Export and selecting a BC profile of the Outlet boundary. In this case there is the option to selected the folder to save it. From this file, in CFX-Pre of the second part of the geometry, I insert a profile data function which is used in basic settings of the new inlet as use profile data.

For the particles, the release 19.2 has the option of injection regions and in its basic settings there is the option of loading a profile but I can't find the one related to the particles. Only the one regarding to the velocity profile of the continous phase.

Anyway, I hope you understand my explanation.

Thanks anyway.

Gert-Jan · September 21, 2020, 07:53

I think you work in Workbench, not?
Then the .csv-files are located in a CFX folder of your Workbench folder. Just search for .csv.

Mu_CFD · September 21, 2020, 22:25

Yes, I'm in WorkBench and there is a option to show the files generated by the software and i could see the folder location. Thank you because I was looking in Post.

The file generated has the format of the attached image CSV_FILE.

The configuration the of OutputControl>Export was made like the attached image OUTPUT_EXPORT.

The next step is loading the exported profile in the second geometry and for this Tools>Initialize Profile Data (thats what you mean UNDER TOOLS in your previous explanation?). Selecting the correct file the message of the attached image PART2_IMPORT appears. It looks like there are some discrepancys between the format of the file generated and the format required for PRE-Cfx to read.

For ilustrate the CFD problem, I'm working with the simulation of an industrial venturi scrubber and, since my computer is not large, I have to split up the geometry. I've divided in three and the attached image POST, show the two of them with the velocity profile exported. I could inject the particles uniformily in the inlet of the second geometry, but I'm actually interested in the particle information from second>third geometry. The third geometry is where the demister (droplet entrainment) and the distribution in the inlet3 is very important.

Gert-Jan · September 22, 2020, 03:58

As mentioned before I have never gone through such a procedure so in fact I don't know.

What you should look for is what PRE demands as input for a particle profile. Probably the exportfile of the particles is not made for this purpose. So you have to modify it yourself.
The error message says that PRE is expecting a [name]. Look at the fluid.csv file with the velocity profile from Post. I expect this one to have the correct heading. So modify the particle.csv such that it has a similar heading as the fluid.csv and try once more.

Also, I think values like 'n.a.' is not a good idea. First test this with only position and velocity. Then if this works, add diameter, temperature, etc.
I don't expect CFX to need the Reynolds and Ohnesorge numbers since these are derived quantities.

February 9, 2019, 12:29	Particle data export	#1
Mu_CFD New Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 9 Rep Power: 9	Hi everybody, I've been working in a study of a venturi scrubber with a multiphase steady state flow composed of air (continuous fluid) and water (particle transport fluid). In total, there are 100 particles (droplets of water). The particle aoupling used is Fully Coupled. The idea was to divide the geometry due to hardware limitations (it is simulating an industril equipment so that it's a big domain. So far I could export the air velocity profile from outlet1 and use it as boundary condition at inlet2 (File>Export>Type BC Profile>Location INLET1> Profile Type Inlet direction). part1.jpg I've also exported the whole particle track from the first simulation and see it in the second one (File> Export > Type BC Profile> Location Particle Track 1> Profile Type Inlet diretion) but I coldn't use it as boundary conditions . part2.jpg The idea is to see the particles track also in second simulation but so far I wasn't able to. Could some one help me? It would be very helpfull in developing my study. Any questions that you may have, be my guest. Thank you a lot.

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February 25, 2019, 22:25		#2
Mu_CFD New Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 9 Rep Power: 9	Is there anybody who can help me? Thx a lot

May 6, 2019, 13:13		#3
manut New Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 9	Hello, Did you come up with the solution? I am working on something similar where I need to import particle profile data from different solution and it is not so straightforward to set. BR

May 6, 2019, 17:03		#4
Gert-Jan Senior Member Gert-Jan Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Europe Posts: 1,913 Rep Power: 28	What you can try is: 1) setup your first case. In OutputControl>Export define a CFX CSV export file with particle information on the outlet. 2) run the simulation to generate the csv-file. 3) setup the second case. 4) import the csv-file as profile data (Under Tools) 5) Look for "Injection region" in the top ribbon. This menu allows injection positions from a Profile. I never gone through this whole process (my computer is large, no need to split up my geometry), but you could give it a try. Forgot to mention, From the first case you also need the oulet velocity profile of the continuous phase. In Post you can export this as profile data and import it in CFX-Pre as inlet profile of your second case.

May 7, 2019, 05:39		#5
manut New Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 9	Thank you for prompt answer. I have remodeled my domain as I need velocity profile from a plane which is not a boundary condition. Presumably you cannot export bc profile from nothing else than bc (?). Particle injection regions are available from: Domain > Particle Injection Regions > … but here you can only choose between 3 predefined options (Cone, Cone with primary breakup, Sphere). Unless this option shows up when particle data are uploaded? Data set to be exported in Output control are in slightly different format than those exported (File > Export > Export > BC profile) and could not be uploaded via Tools > Initialize Profile Data. It is also impossible to export Particle data via File > Export procedure because this warning pops up: "The following variables are not present in the geometry and will be omitted from the exported data …". What could be the best approach to upload particle profile data? I can somehow modify exported data to match required format but I don't think it should be like that. BR

May 7, 2019, 08:15		#7
manut New Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 9	I have 18.2 and do not see this option. Eventually I can migrate to 19.2 but I share results with others so it might take some time. Could you think of some other way? I tried to export these data but it always gives me a warning that it is not present which is strange as according to documentation it, as a default, writes these data.

May 7, 2019, 08:43		#8
Gert-Jan Senior Member Gert-Jan Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Europe Posts: 1,913 Rep Power: 28	No I don't know any other option. You could ask ANSYS if it the option is already available as hidden beta feature in v18.2. Look in the options of CFX-Pre where you can enable beta features.

May 7, 2019, 09:59		#9
manut New Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 9	Thank you, I was not aware that I can enable beta features. Unfortunately it is not available in 18.2 even as a beta feature. I guess I will upgrade to 19.2. BR

September 21, 2020, 07:53		#11
Gert-Jan Senior Member Gert-Jan Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Europe Posts: 1,913 Rep Power: 28	I think you work in Workbench, not? Then the .csv-files are located in a CFX folder of your Workbench folder. Just search for .csv.

September 22, 2020, 03:58		#13
Gert-Jan Senior Member Gert-Jan Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Europe Posts: 1,913 Rep Power: 28	As mentioned before I have never gone through such a procedure so in fact I don't know. What you should look for is what PRE demands as input for a particle profile. Probably the exportfile of the particles is not made for this purpose. So you have to modify it yourself. The error message says that PRE is expecting a [name]. Look at the fluid.csv file with the velocity profile from Post. I expect this one to have the correct heading. So modify the particle.csv such that it has a similar heading as the fluid.csv and try once more. Also, I think values like 'n.a.' is not a good idea. First test this with only position and velocity. Then if this works, add diameter, temperature, etc. I don't expect CFX to need the Reynolds and Ohnesorge numbers since these are derived quantities.