Particles into fluid domaine

metaliat93 · October 18, 2016, 02:07

Help please to set Boundary conditions.
I must solve fluid dynamic of rotating disk with some volume of solid particles on there.
How correctry set setup for solid particles?
disk.jpg
1 - solid particles
2 - rotating disk
best regards

ghorrocks · October 18, 2016, 03:04

What are you trying to model? What are you trying to learn from this simulation?

Do the solid particles move? Are you interested in the air flow around this rotating thing? What are the solid particles - size, shape, density, other relevant properties (eg sticky, slippery, hot, cold etc)

metaliat93 · October 18, 2016, 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghorrocks

What are you trying to model? What are you trying to learn from this simulation?

Do the solid particles move? Are you interested in the air flow around this rotating thing? What are the solid particles - size, shape, density, other relevant properties (eg sticky, slippery, hot, cold etc)

No, solid particles don t move. It just is on the rotating disk. Me interesting how changed trajectory of particles when disk wiil be rotating.

I don t know how set that mesh/BC of place/volume of particles will on the disk.

Parametrs of solid prcl don t interesting (no termal, no deforming)

ghorrocks · October 18, 2016, 06:04

I do not understand your reply. Are the particles stationary or do they have trajectories? Are you trying to model the motion of the particles or the air around it?

metaliat93 · October 18, 2016, 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghorrocks

I do not understand your reply. Are the particles stationary or do they have trajectories? Are you trying to model the motion of the particles or the air around it?

I'm trying to simulate the trajectory of the solid particles that are on the rotating disk. Around the disc - the air.

ghorrocks · October 18, 2016, 06:40

What forces act on the particles?

metaliat93 · October 18, 2016, 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghorrocks

What forces act on the particles?

only Coriolis forces, centrifugal and air viscosity.

ghorrocks · October 18, 2016, 07:00

Does it have particle to particle forces? Or particle to rotating disc forces?

metaliat93 · October 18, 2016, 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghorrocks

Does it have particle to particle forces? Or particle to rotating disc forces?

it have particle to rotating disc forces. (If I right understand you)

ghorrocks · October 18, 2016, 07:12

In your first drawing you show a pile of particles. To get a pile there needs to be particle to particle forces. Can you confirm whether there are particle to particle forces?

Also - in a simple case the particles will just fly off the disk in straight lines. This does not sound like a case worth bothering to do a CFD simulation. What is happening to make it complex enough to do it by CFD?

metaliat93 · October 18, 2016, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghorrocks

In your first drawing you show a pile of particles. To get a pile there needs to be particle to particle forces. Can you confirm whether there are particle to particle forces?

Also - in a simple case the particles will just fly off the disk in straight lines. This does not sound like a case worth bothering to do a CFD simulation. What is happening to make it complex enough to do it by CFD?

Ok.
I think that I must simulate dynamic of paticles in CFD.
and add gravity

ghorrocks · October 18, 2016, 08:18

CFX cannot do particle to particle collision forces in a Lagrangian model. I suspect you need a Langrangian model for this. This means CFX is not a suitable simulation software for your application.

metaliat93 · October 18, 2016, 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghorrocks

CFX cannot do particle to particle collision forces in a Lagrangian model. I suspect you need a Langrangian model for this. This means CFX is not a suitable simulation software for your application.

And what about Fluent?

ghorrocks · October 18, 2016, 18:36

I understand Fluent has a very simple particle to particle collision model. You would have to check it out.

For full particle to particle collision modelling you would need to look at discrete element modelling (DEM) like EDEM or ROCKY. These softwares can be coupled to CFD software so the CFD software models the fluid flow and the DEM software models the particle collisions.

October 18, 2016, 02:07	Particles into fluid domaine	#1
metaliat93 Member Aleksandr Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Kharkov, Ukraine Posts: 93 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 10	Help please to set Boundary conditions. I must solve fluid dynamic of rotating disk with some volume of solid particles on there. How correctry set setup for solid particles? disk.jpg 1 - solid particles 2 - rotating disk best regards

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October 18, 2016, 03:04		#2
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,852 Rep Power: 144	What are you trying to model? What are you trying to learn from this simulation? Do the solid particles move? Are you interested in the air flow around this rotating thing? What are the solid particles - size, shape, density, other relevant properties (eg sticky, slippery, hot, cold etc)

October 18, 2016, 06:04		#4
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,852 Rep Power: 144	I do not understand your reply. Are the particles stationary or do they have trajectories? Are you trying to model the motion of the particles or the air around it?

October 18, 2016, 06:40		#6
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,852 Rep Power: 144	What forces act on the particles?

October 18, 2016, 07:00		#8
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,852 Rep Power: 144	Does it have particle to particle forces? Or particle to rotating disc forces?

October 18, 2016, 07:12		#10
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,852 Rep Power: 144	In your first drawing you show a pile of particles. To get a pile there needs to be particle to particle forces. Can you confirm whether there are particle to particle forces? Also - in a simple case the particles will just fly off the disk in straight lines. This does not sound like a case worth bothering to do a CFD simulation. What is happening to make it complex enough to do it by CFD?

October 18, 2016, 08:18		#12
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,852 Rep Power: 144	CFX cannot do particle to particle collision forces in a Lagrangian model. I suspect you need a Langrangian model for this. This means CFX is not a suitable simulation software for your application.

October 18, 2016, 18:36		#14
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,852 Rep Power: 144	I understand Fluent has a very simple particle to particle collision model. You would have to check it out. For full particle to particle collision modelling you would need to look at discrete element modelling (DEM) like EDEM or ROCKY. These softwares can be coupled to CFD software so the CFD software models the fluid flow and the DEM software models the particle collisions.