rigid body convergence issue

hamed.majeed · September 25, 2012, 23:34

Hi,
I have problems with the convergence of my rigid body. Although, the flow parameters are converged. Can anybody specify what the problems might be??

But look at the flow parameters, they do converge.

hamed.majeed · September 26, 2012, 00:23

I applied residuals for torque, force, and mesh motion. Still divergent.

hamed.majeed · September 26, 2012, 00:24

Also I tried.

hamed.majeed · September 26, 2012, 00:25

I also tried.

hamed.majeed · September 26, 2012, 05:37

For a combination of above settings turned on these were the results.

ghorrocks · September 26, 2012, 09:12

Can you describe what you are modelling?

hamed.majeed · September 26, 2012, 09:37

I am simulating a rigid body drop in fluid. Using 6 dof Rigid body solver and the rigid body defined as an immersed solid.
The problem is that the fluid parameters u, v, and w show convergence but the rigid body does not. Also in rigid body convergence curves overshoots occur.

hamed.majeed · September 26, 2012, 12:25

These are the best results that I could obtain, but it has 100 iterations for the stagger/coupling loop.

Still unsatisfactory!!

hamed.majeed · September 26, 2012, 15:37

Hi,
I have explained my case. A rigid body falls under gravity in a column of fluid.

As I have shown that the rigid body convergence diverges. However, in ANSYS help I found this.

Force Convergence

It is defined as ratio of difference of forces for previous and present time step divided by the greater of the two forces.
Now, in my case the rigid body falls under gravity.
At each time step the force acting on the body differs as the rigid body rotates and translates. Is that the explanation of the curve behavior???

Also torque convergence is defined similar to force convergence but for torque.

ghorrocks · September 26, 2012, 19:36

Are you using immersed solids or moving mesh approach?

hamed.majeed · September 26, 2012, 23:18

the immersed approach

ghorrocks · September 26, 2012, 23:31

Have you read section 1.2.10.2 of the documentation listing the limitations of this approach?

For transient cases, immersed solids do not interact properly with fluid domains that involve compressibility or multiphase flow.

Would explain what you are seeing. Also have a look at section 11.7.

Also

hamed.majeed · September 27, 2012, 00:01

Yes, I have. My case is incompressible fluid. However, since the rigid body falls with initially at rest. This limitation applies to it.

"For low Reynolds number turbulence cases, the immersed solids turbulence model cannot accurately predict the pressure fields near the immersed boundaries".

All clear for rigid body limitations

ghorrocks · September 27, 2012, 08:45

Yes, that restriction may cause problems. What is the Re number of your bodies motion at the time you are having problems?

So your simulation is single phase?

hamed.majeed · September 27, 2012, 14:07

Yes, it is single phase = water
Rigid body has max. velocity = 2 m/s.
Re = [(rho =1000kg/m^3)*(v=2m/s)*(d=0.02m)]/(mu=1e-3) = 40k.
I am extremely sorry, it isn't low reynolds.

ghorrocks · September 27, 2012, 19:33

Agreed, that does not sound like low Re. But when the motion first starts it might be. What is the Re at the time of convergence difficulties?

hamed.majeed · September 28, 2012, 01:02

well if you see the curves above. I would say pretty every where.

ghorrocks · September 28, 2012, 01:17

Can you try putting the body in a duct with a cross flow in it? Then the body will be starting from a reasonable Re right from the start. I suggest this just to see if the problem is convergence at low Re.

hamed.majeed · September 28, 2012, 10:37

you mean that I should give some velocity to the fluid i.e. 2 m/s, as max. velocity of rigid body in previous case was 2m/s.
Also, should I make the rigid body stationary??
I will do that, using 6 dof rigid body solver!

hamed.majeed · September 28, 2012, 12:33

Hi,
Here is a brief explanation of what I am trying to do.
A rigid body defined as an immersed solid and solved by using 6 dof Rigid body solver is dropped from rest into a fluid domain. The fluid domain is single phase. Opening BCs are given to the top and bottom of the fluid domain. Wall BCs the sides.

September 25, 2012, 23:34	rigid body convergence issue	#1
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	Hi, I have problems with the convergence of my rigid body. Although, the flow parameters are converged. Can anybody specify what the problems might be?? But look at the flow parameters, they do converge.

September 26, 2012, 23:31		#12
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,870 Rep Power: 144	Have you read section 1.2.10.2 of the documentation listing the limitations of this approach? For transient cases, immersed solids do not interact properly with fluid domains that involve compressibility or multiphase flow. Would explain what you are seeing. Also have a look at section 11.7. Also

September 27, 2012, 14:07		#15
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	Yes, it is single phase = water Rigid body has max. velocity = 2 m/s. Re = [(rho =1000kg/m^3)(v=2m/s)(d=0.02m)]/(mu=1e-3) = 40k. I am extremely sorry, it isn't low reynolds. Last edited by hamed.majeed; September 27, 2012 at 14:56.

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September 26, 2012, 00:23		#2
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	I applied residuals for torque, force, and mesh motion. Still divergent.

September 26, 2012, 00:24		#3
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	Also I tried.

September 26, 2012, 00:25		#4
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	I also tried.

September 26, 2012, 05:37		#5
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	For a combination of above settings turned on these were the results.

September 26, 2012, 09:12		#6
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,870 Rep Power: 144	Can you describe what you are modelling?

September 26, 2012, 09:37		#7
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	I am simulating a rigid body drop in fluid. Using 6 dof Rigid body solver and the rigid body defined as an immersed solid. The problem is that the fluid parameters u, v, and w show convergence but the rigid body does not. Also in rigid body convergence curves overshoots occur.

September 26, 2012, 12:25		#8
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	These are the best results that I could obtain, but it has 100 iterations for the stagger/coupling loop. Still unsatisfactory!!

September 26, 2012, 15:37		#9
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	Hi, I have explained my case. A rigid body falls under gravity in a column of fluid. As I have shown that the rigid body convergence diverges. However, in ANSYS help I found this. Force Convergence It is defined as ratio of difference of forces for previous and present time step divided by the greater of the two forces. Now, in my case the rigid body falls under gravity. At each time step the force acting on the body differs as the rigid body rotates and translates. Is that the explanation of the curve behavior??? Also torque convergence is defined similar to force convergence but for torque.

September 26, 2012, 19:36		#10
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,870 Rep Power: 144	Are you using immersed solids or moving mesh approach?

September 26, 2012, 23:18		#11
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	the immersed approach

September 27, 2012, 00:01		#13
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	Yes, I have. My case is incompressible fluid. However, since the rigid body falls with initially at rest. This limitation applies to it. "For low Reynolds number turbulence cases, the immersed solids turbulence model cannot accurately predict the pressure fields near the immersed boundaries". All clear for rigid body limitations

September 27, 2012, 08:45		#14
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,870 Rep Power: 144	Yes, that restriction may cause problems. What is the Re number of your bodies motion at the time you are having problems? So your simulation is single phase?

September 27, 2012, 19:33		#16
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,870 Rep Power: 144	Agreed, that does not sound like low Re. But when the motion first starts it might be. What is the Re at the time of convergence difficulties?

September 28, 2012, 01:02		#17
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	well if you see the curves above. I would say pretty every where.

September 28, 2012, 01:17		#18
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,870 Rep Power: 144	Can you try putting the body in a duct with a cross flow in it? Then the body will be starting from a reasonable Re right from the start. I suggest this just to see if the problem is convergence at low Re.

September 28, 2012, 10:37		#19
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	you mean that I should give some velocity to the fluid i.e. 2 m/s, as max. velocity of rigid body in previous case was 2m/s. Also, should I make the rigid body stationary?? I will do that, using 6 dof rigid body solver!

September 28, 2012, 12:33		#20
hamed.majeed Senior Member Hamed Abdul Majeed Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA, US Posts: 147 Rep Power: 14	Hi, Here is a brief explanation of what I am trying to do. A rigid body defined as an immersed solid and solved by using 6 dof Rigid body solver is dropped from rest into a fluid domain. The fluid domain is single phase. Opening BCs are given to the top and bottom of the fluid domain. Wall BCs the sides.